[UPHPU] PHP Frameworks

[MilesTogoe]

I think Wade is wrong, all frameworks are not dumb - there are 2 big 
reasons for using frameworks:
1) productivity
2) code structure & documentation

1) a "lean" framework like CodeIgniter does not require a lot of 
"learning" and in fact takes out a lot of coding and potential errors, 
security lapses, etc. that can occur in custom coding.  If a framework 
is halfway good, it has already been tested by the core team and the 
user community..  I would be surprised if a moderately proficient php 
person is not productive within an hour or two of using CodeIgniter.  
Furthermore it's easier to get help on a user forum since everyone is 
working on the same code structure.   It is also far easier to hire or 
bring a new programmer onto a framework project than to make them 
decipher a custom project.

2) if you are working in or working for any sort of business, good, 
clean code that can be easily understood by others is an absolute must 
for any sort of code maintenance.   I would never again (been burned 
once) allow any "custom coding" without very exacting code standards - a 
framework provides those standards and anyone else working on the code 
can simply follow the framework logic.  Furthermore, a good framework 
provides good documentation already for you and you don't have to pay to 
have documentation provided or created.  Because PHP can so easily be 
customized, it has that well deserved reputation of becoming "spaghetti 
code" - have 5 people work on a custom php project and you're likely to 
get 5 different logic streams. 

If language is not critical, and you want "full features"  consider 
Rails(ruby) or Django(python).  You may have good reasons not to use 
either one but many excellent, nationally regarded web programmers have 
acknowledged Rails set the standard for web MVC programming.  Django is 
perhaps the best framework where high performance is required (ie 
Washington Post).   Personally I have found CodeIgniter to be the best 
"lean,mean" framework out there.  Joe Gregorio's Robaccia is similar in 
python, and while it is not an official, supported framework project, it 
simply assembles several well supported python libraries. 



Wade Preston Shearer wrote:
>> Id like to know what PHP frameworks if any you use.
>
> I don't use any. I have never felt like I needed one or that there 
> would be much benefit, or that the cons would outweigh the benefits.
>
> I think they are dumb, generally because they are unnecessary bloat. 
> They have to make be generic and all encompassing to work for many 
> scenarios so you have bloat. I like my stuff to be lean and mean and 
> completely custom. I'm not saying that I like to reinvent the wheel 
> just for the fun of it, but I need to have complete control of 
> everything including the display and have confidence in ever aspect of 
> the application from performance to security. There are a couple that 
> I might consider like Code Ignighter, but for the most part there is 
> no interest.
>
> If a framework comes with a few things like a DB-connect module, a 
> form engine, a validator, an authentication module… has a templating 
> engine (separates the display from the business logic)… and a few 
> other things like that… and that is all it does… then it could be 
> helpful in jumpstarting you on a project and not reinventing the wheel 
> each time, but if it does much more than that, then it's bloat and 
> will actually be a hinderance as you will waste more time figuring out 
> how to use it and trying to customize it then you would have just 
> writing it yourself.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> UPHPU mailing list
> UPHPU at uphpu.org
> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu
> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net