[UPHPU] More CSS frustration

[jtaber]

cole at colejoplin.com wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I did my last table layout about 5 years ago, the day before a 
> designer showed me www.csszengarden.com. That was it for me. Moving to 
> tableless-layout is hard, there's no denying that fact. There are a 
> number of different solutions for any CSS layout, but finding one that 
> is cross-browser requires some real work.
>
> I'll share what works for me. I definitely recommend the ZenGarden 
> book, which I bought. Every book on CSS I've had has been technical in 
> nature. Zen really meshes design and technical in a way that is, in my 
> view, far more comprehensive, and reveals the purpose of CSS 
> brilliantly. Personally, I think it's required reading if you're doing 
> CSS, otherwise you only have half the story at best. Here's one of the 
> best lessons about the site and the book: If you're going to use CSS, 
> embrace its purpose, especially flexibility.
>
> Case in point, the AListApart site. It has some fantastic examples, 
> but also some that I think are crap, because they rely on hacks. And 
> this brings me to what I think you should consider when doing CSS: be 
> skeptical and be disciplined. When I see a hack example, I refuse to 
> use it. I cringe when I hear people say they **HAD** to use this hack 
> they found, blah, blah... This will only increase your frustration. 
> Hacks are not flexible, they are browser-dependent. This goes against 
> the purpose of CSS.
>
> Secondly, be disciplined in avoiding markup that forces a layout. Try 
> viewing your html file, without any css file (always external, 
> please). Does the page make sense? Is it devoid of layout information? 
> Have you used <H2>, <H2>, <P> like the purpose of the tags ask you to 
> follow? It also helps your natural SEO. If you see a <BR> tag 
> anywhere, you know for a fact that the markup is not disciplined for 
> CSS. Put your links/menus in a list <UL>, which can be vertically or 
> horizontally styled later. Your markup plays a very big part in CSS.
>
> Do those two things and you have a better chance of success. But it's 
> always painful to get cross-browser. So learn multiple startegies, 
> learn the box model, definitely learn floats. Post your page 
> somewhere, and use the group to help.
>
> -- Cole
>

thanks - I don't like hacks either - the inability to approach it 
systematically is what was frustrating me so much.  I'll take a look for 
the zen book.

Earlier today , I tried  a couple of the suggested changes, didn't work 
so I reverted and within 2 hours had all the views looking fine with 
tables.  Will just have to tackle CSS at a later date.