[UPHPU] Swift: a web browser for Windows

[Smith, Jeff]

-----Original Message-----
From: uphpu-bounces at uphpu.org [mailto:uphpu-bounces at uphpu.org] On Behalf
Of Wade Preston Shearer
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:24 AM
To: UPHPU List
Subject: Re: [UPHPU] Swift: a web browser for Windows

> I want to say I must by the only person on the list that uses Windows 
> as my primary platform.  Which bring me to my next question.  What 
> exactly is broken in IE besides the fact Microsoft makes it.

The company making the product is not the reason that it is junk. It is
junk because of (1) bad design decisions by it's developers, (2)
proprietary commands and syntax, (3) blatant disregard for industry
standards, and (4) blatant apathy because of their monopoly for
improving/updating it.

> I know they had problems with the 6.x series and even more in the 5.x 
> series but I am running 7 beta 3 right now and IMHO it is an awesome 
> browser.

How many of your clients are using MSIE 7? It is going to be a _long_
time before it's users base is high enough that it's old issues are no
longer issues.

I am curious... what makes you consider it awesome?

> I know I will probably get lynched because I like a Microsoft product 
> but I want to know what is broken?

You must not do web development if you have to ask what's broken in
MSIE. I don't mean to be rude, but it is painfully obvious when
attempting to render the most basic code.

Some of the most notorious (that I deal with on a daily basis):

.	box model problem

.	lack of translucency support

.	form elements rendered on the OS level

.	non-standard margins and spacing
	(examples include headers and paragraphs)

.	lack of support of many basic CSS features (such
	as auto margins and min/max heights)

.	lack of support for :hover on anything besides anchors

.	poor style inheritance

.	default margins on lists are all messed up

.	major security issues since it is not a stand alone
	application (tied into the OS)

.	distance and size calculation (fonts, absolute positioning,
	widths and heights) bugs and inconsistencies

.	lack of support for advanced CSS selectors


If every other main stream browser supports these features or handles
these correctly (correct being defined as the accepted industry
standard) and has done so for years and years and MSIE does not, then it
is a piece of junk.

__

You are right I am not a developer (I am a hobbyist).  I am a seasoned
systems administrator and I like IE for several reasons.  I can deploy a
group policy to manage all IE settings.  I don't have to worry about my
users going in a messing with their settings.  I understand most people
on this list are pretty techonsavvy and could handle maintaining their
own computers, unfortunately most of my users are not.  Some of the
reason I like IE 7 some much (relative to 6.0) is the addition of a
couple features like tabbed browsing (I know firefox has had it for a
while), and tight RSS integration (I think firefox had this ability with
a plugin), as well as the promise they will be more standards compliant
(we will see if they follow thru).

I have come across some of the problems you have mentioned.   One that I
always struggled with was the box model problem but I found that could
be fixed with a proper DOCTYPE.  

The reason I am asking is more for my knowledge I see/hear a lot of
people complaining about IE and I wanted to find out some specific
details.  I am not trying to start a browser flame war.  I just like to
know _stuff_.