[UPHPU] Java and Frameworks (was: MVC)

John lists at strictlyrockymountain.com
Thu Nov 11 22:33:21 MST 2004

Thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of nor have I heard the term
"one atomic unit".  From experience also I have made systems that
certainly watch what the result is of one transaction before processing
the next, but I realize what your saying, that my second process most
certainly cannot stop the first process if the second cannot proceed.  And
that is what a transaction and roleback, etc. is all about.  Thanks again.


> Your code is not a transaction. Notice that I said "all as one atomic
> unit" below. This means that if any one (or more) of the actions fails,
> then they all must fail. You wouldn't want a customer's credit card to
> be charged, while the inventory system was unable to update the
> inventory. The classic example is moving money from one bank account to
> another. This consists of two actions:
>   1. Debit the money from one account
>   2. Credit the money to the other account
> If action 1 fails, but action 2 succeeds, the bank is not going to be
> happy (good news for you though). A transaction system forces either all
> or neither of the actions to happen, and will guarantee this for you.
> Thus, the actions happen as one atomic unit, a transaction. PHP does not
> have this. J2EE does. By the way, not many frameworks provide
> transaction support, so I don't really consider this a strike against
> PHP, but more like a plus for J2EE vs. all others.
> By the way, this is very difficult to accomplish manually. As the number
> of actions in your transaction increases, the complexity of a manual
> solution increases exponentially. I know, because I've written one
> before. It only had two actions, but it was hard enough that it taught
> me the value of a framework-managed transaction system (like container
> managed transactions in J2EE). I would certainly not like to implement a
> transaction manually with 5 actions!
> Here's some more info (just a Google search) if you're still curious:
> http://tinyurl.com/5ykbl
> --Dave
> <quote who="John">
>> Dave, can you explain to me what transactions are.  I know what they
>> are in MySQL/Postgresql, but from your explanation below I have done
>> what I think your saying.  I have written a function that charges a
>> credit card, update the master transaction table and sends an email.
>> I've even go farther into making each their own function.
>> I want to say that I completely understand the re-usability of code
>> stored in memory as an object, and PHP doesn't do that.  However that
>> would be awesome and make PHP OO programming much much more, IMHO.
>> --
>> Thanks
>> John
>>> <quote who="John David Anderson">
>>>> From all I can tell (and I'm no big PHP or Java guru), but PHP is
>>>> just as good as Java. I personally like PHP because its more
>>>> flexible and way less verbose.
>>>> System.out.println.righthere.astext.please("hello") vs. echo "Hi."
>>>> :o)
>>> PHP and Java Servlets are fundamentally different from eachother by
>>> design. There is one big factor: persistent objects. In a Servlet,
>>> when you create an instance of a class, it can remain in memory to be
>>> reused by subsequent HTTP requests. In PHP, such instances must be
>>> serialized and persisted to a session (typically written to a file,
>>> relational DB, or a ramdisk). This design makes Servlets able to
>>> handle *huge* volumes of users concurrently because objects don't
>>> have to be deserialized and re-created to be reused. They just "stick
>>> around" in memory. This is why Java excels in the enterprise web
>>> arena. That, and it has a huge marketing department and much more
>>> "official" support.
>>> Not to mention, when you talk about Enterprise Java (J2EE), you
>>> aren't just talking about web applications and JSP, you're also
>>> taking about transaction support. And PHP certainly does not have
>>> that. How can you write a PHP transaction that credits a credit card,
>>> modifies an inventory record, updates an internal accounting system,
>>> and emails notification, all as one atomic unit. That is not easy in
>>> PHP. It's not easy in Java either, but it's at least supported.
>>> --Dave
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