[UPHPU] Java and Frameworks (was: MVC)

Ray Hunter bigdog at venticon.com
Thu Nov 11 09:48:50 MST 2004

On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 09:02, John David Anderson wrote:
> <quote who='Ray'>
> > After developing with
> > MVC and frameworks in java, php does not follow the same paradigm. When
> > implementing these types in php there is an overkill to it all.
> <quote>

With this quote i was mainly thinking about persistent reusable objects.

> It seems like the general tenor of the technology world is that Java is 
> better (especially for the 'enterprise') because it requires this rigid 
> framework. I haven't been able to work with Java much on the web - but 
> I've never been able to figure out a straight answer as to whether or 
> not that is true.

To some extent it is. There are many features in java that lend it
toward and enterprise system. For example, I am working on an enterprise
system that will have 1.8 million users and 70K concurrent users. I am
working on transactions and i need to have some of the transaction
features that java provides because they span multiple systems.

> After reading Adv. PHP Programming, George makes me think that there 
> aren't any problems with large-scale PHP applications, and from my 
> short frolic in the land of JSP, it really just seems like PHP to me. I 
> haven't done any servlet stuff, but it seems like you could accomplish 
> the same thing in PHP, essentially.

<plug>the adv. php programming book is a killer book. John, can you do a
review on this book for the group. I think that there are many members
that would love to know more about it. I will also have a copy of it in
our user group library too.</plug>

JSP is just one layer in the large-scale applications. You have
servlets, ejbs, transactions, containers and other features too.
However, I am a big supporter of php for enterprise applications. I
think that there is a alot of "fluff" in many java web applications. I
think that it boils down to "how good is the code".

>  From all I can tell (and I'm no big PHP or Java guru), but PHP is just 
> as good as Java. I personally like PHP because its more flexible and 
> way less verbose. System.out.println.righthere.astext.please("hello") 
> vs. echo "Hi." :o)

Java and PHP are very different languages that have similar features.
Yet, i think that each has its place. I think this also lends to Perl as
well. It really comes down to what requirements your application has and
how you can solve them in the lanuage that you chose. I think that there
are many factors to software development that affect which language and
architecture that you use; for example, available programmers.


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